Call for Regulations regarding Liquidity Providers
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Thread: Call for Regulations regarding Liquidity Providers

  1. #1
    Together with concentrates on brokers, I feel the origin of this turmoil is the failure on the liquidity providers' role on making and keeping an orderly market; they are the culprit in causing this calamity. I believe if these prime banks like Citi,'' Deutsche Bank weren't doing what they are supposed to, making market and supplying liquidity, we would not be in this kinda s*** as right now, accounts in downsides, wiped out and brokers shutting doors. Within this type of s***storm, you really realize that your broker is your partner; we are all in this together against another level, the unscrupulous chicken s*** liquidity providers, the prime banks such as Deutsche who conveniently stopped supplying price feed to brokers and some liquidity providers even placing in errorneous quotes on Currenex according to IC Markets.

    Bunch of chicken s*** limpy dicks!! WHY call themselves liquidity providers, Prime banks, when liquidity is needed the most, they were NEVER there to provide it, back in 2011 during also this and the Flash crash? They were assumed to be there supplying liquidity? They were the Liquidity Provider??? Where was liquidity when SNB news came out???!!! THEY would be the prime liquidity providers with their flashy logos, having billions of $$ of assets and yet they all bail when s*** hits the fan and leave little retail traders with only several K of account balance holding the bag and brokers absorbing losses from all those accounts. It's like in the face of the storm on the sea and leave us fishing ships to pick up the pieces and rescue those drowning at sea.

    If SEC, NFA/CFTC REALLY would like to get off their a$$'s and do something, they should investigate this. Did the liquidity providers, the banks ceased providing liquidity to ensure a smooth and orderly market when their function of providing liquidity and market-making was needed the Did those prime banks, the assets, all bail at the face of most gruesome market condition and leave us retail traders and brokers, the least able to struggle to provide a market? As far as I can tellwe, the tiny retail traders and our fx brokers were the ones supplying liquidity with our orders execute right and left and yet we have the $ of assets and we are not compensated.

    Since NFA/CFTC are so very good at coming up with regulations, why don't they ) Heavily fine those liquidity providers who stopped quoting prices in this SNB event thus producing all CHF-related pairs untradable and disrupting the market and distribute the penalties proceeds to all the brokers who needed to absorb all the negative balances of their retail traders who were the legitimate market makers at the time and 2) Come up with a law which will force ALL liquidity providers to be there producing market in ALL market conditions regardless of what to ensure a smooth and orderly market at all times. Don't those regulators do this? Do they dare? To go against those banks who are basically the ones paying for their presence? No they do not. Is currently clamping down forbidding us to fund our account with credit cards! Ridiculous!! Another bunch of dicks!!


    Any comments and thoughts are welcome. I'm too angry to say anything.

  2. #2
    I do know exactly what you are speaking about. As I stated a couple days ago, when Kennedy was assassinated, the market makers purchased into one of the greatest sell-offs in history and saved the integrity of this market. They were almost wiped out. That's their job. The money that they bring in the system is supposed to be proven discretionary. And no matter how much the people here try to make it seem like the LP's are only there to have fun and steal with impunity, IT IS IMPLIED that Forex is the most liquid market in the entire world. (But we know it is just liquid until something occurs ).

    I'll bet 80% of traders didn't know what occurred to CHF could occur due to Forex marketing designed to obfuse. The proponents of no regulations sound like Republican stunt voters that enjoy GOP perversion of capitalism.... Privatized profits for them and losses that are socialized for us.

    One month ago, ONE stock option guru said in his movie, Stay away from Forex. . .you'll wake up one day and your complete account will be gone.

    But who needs Forex...I have since moved over my whole account to Nadex where I could exchange 24/7 binary options on currencies, stocks, gold, oil, sausage etc.. .and never be subject to bait and switch schemes by bankers resulting in a negative account balance ten times my first investment.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote True. The highest these regulators dares to clamp down are the brokers; they will never dare to touch with the huge shots like Deutsche Bank, a bank that has $1.869 TRILLION USD in assets. I mean if SEC needed to take SEVEN years to investigate Bernie Madoff and they didn't even do so ***. And Madoff's company was just a private brokerage/investment company , nowhere near size as banks such as Deutsche. Then something has to be done about them, if not regulators.
    What we need is a voice or a organisation exclusively for its retail traders who is willing to stand as much as brokers, LPs, even regulators should need be.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote One thing I don't know is WHY are you guys so scared of regulations against the Big Boys? You like to subject yourselves to their price manipulations, requotes and you think that is not going to cut through your winnings? What they did during this SNB even was complete s***! And you're going to stand there and take it when they f*** us over and over and above?? If you're scared that the regulators would just turn around and clamp down on us and demand higher deposit from us when we complain, well that is an issue that we need...
    , because the big boys can't be regulated, they are the bosses of those regulators.
    Thus, if people call for law, all they could regulate are the tiny fish (and my new 50:1 maximum leverage confirm that ).

    You cannot regulate the big banks, they are the same that when have to be bailed out, tax payers bond them out.
    The whole world rotate (the market ) thanks and just thanks to these, they really are the bosses.

    Regulations means us small guys get fucked from new stupid rules.
    That's what more regulations is all about.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Yes all of the erroneous regulations contrary to us small guys, same crap they are doling on us to get FX trading, leverage cap and $25K minimum capital requirement. Seriously, WHY do you want $25K deposited there using leverage of 2:1 when the motion of a stock is like few cents a day? Ridiculous! Well I hope they are happy that they wiped out a $billion industry and they are about to wipe out another. Have fun!
    Whining of individuals like YOU wiped out that business today, you are intent on wiping out another!

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    SO you need huge leverage but don't wish to be responsible for consequences?
    He doesn't seem to grasp the fundamental idea of taking responsibility for one's own activities!

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote That is why it took seven years for Bernie Madoff to be exposed....
    Madoff was a fraud, he also did not reveal the character of his dealings with people he was contractually obligated; LPs can only be accused of these if they've failed to meet their contractual arrangements with brokers but it's involving the brokers, not a place for you or regulators to poke their noses inside. Again arrangement is with your broker, NOT using LPs don't act like LPs were at all bound to fill terrible trade to undertake YOUR losses!

    On a slightly different note, U.S. government is the largest perpetrator of a ponzi scheme running about the principle of paying past investors with the money of present investors; that's what social security is, the only difference being that Madoff's clients willingly spent their money wtih him while individuals are made to invest into Social Security.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote pussy is going angry, blaming others for it´s trading skills
    Yeah, only your typical retail FX trader who takes the credit for his wins but blames others for his losses...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote Opportunities won't last as long if the other guys do not play fair.
    We exchange if we want to trade they exchange if they want to exchange, it can not be any fairer than as it is. Instead, what you are asking for - inducing them to exchange when they do not want to - is UNFAIR!

    As I've said before, what you are asking for will never occur because authorities sell their power to the highest bidders but even IF ( that's a humongous IF) what you are asking for is completed, it would such an unjustifiably terrible suggestion that banks will simply not want to do cope with retail trading, they'll just go back to trading among themselves as they'd been before retail forex came into being; and without banks, there won't be sufficient liquidity for a retail trading to be as profitable as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    What and who's there to prevent them? Free market? They ARE the market.
    NO, they're NOT the market, nobody is! When they were they would never eliminate money effective retail traders would never earn a lot of money but there's evidence to the contrary. YES, market, competitive pricing profit is the thing that ensures a reasonable market however, you'd likely not know being a person who believes that regulations would be the reply to each problem incapable of accepting the FACT that people in government aren't interested in anything more than to earn money for themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    there was a situation where this trader was actually on the right side of this market throughout the SNB event; he was shorting the USDCHF and IC Markets went back and corrected his trade with a price which was never found anywhere, never submitted nor published on any institutional quote system and now his trade is a missing one and his account is in negative balances. Because those liquidity f***ers stopped quoting, there is no way to understand what's supposed to be the reasonable value of the currency and they are able to just offer whatever price they prefer to your trade....
    I've read it I feel it was unfair of IC markets to re-price him onto a price that's hugely out of sync with the market but his criticism should be with IC Markets as he has a contract together , not with LPs. I don't understand their contract covers these cases but in any case, I really do believe it was unfair of IC Markets to do that their punishment will be. Again, I believe brokers typically do have contracts with their LPs so if some of the LPs have violated contracts with brokers then brokers must bring them to justice as some other violation of a contract should be but still does not warrant regulations of this kind you are suggesting in order to ruin retail forex.

    No, they can not afford whatever price they like. Since Traider has pointed out, it's a battle for the money of someone else, everybody is hoping to profit for themselves which ensures competitive pricing, the simple fact that not all LPs made money is proof of that.

    Honest value of anything can simply be where people are prepared buy/sell it, that can change in a matter of seconds as new information is shown but that has been too obvious another day.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote Exactly the point! quote May be the silver lining but I believe not all successful traders start with 100K, some make their way up from the bottom so although what you are saying is possibly right but if entry-level is raised by the regulators then I will feel sorry for some of the new guys that will have been denied the opportunity to try and become a profitable forex trader just due to inanity of folks like. But I guess that is how it functions, the world isn't fair! quote Short sweet! The fact is regulation IS...
    Great article (and outline of articles ). Pretty much where I stand r4. Yeah, I'm a fish. A few hundred more was turned into by A hundred bucks and I'd like to continue. Been dealing with the US 50:1 and got no complaints but wouldn't want to find some other lower actually (before my account is a lot bigger ). Higher is nice, I know how to correct and regulate myself. Biggest problem for me would be the FIFO No Hedging regulations which hog tie a lot of trading methods that are wonderful.

    I have dedied about every free minute of my life since 2008 learning the markets and how to trade them. Yes, even through, and with the cries of exploitation going on. Heck, even cried manipulation myself (I'm human too ) when things went rye. I envision right up to the point I could finally see it was simply my fault and may acknowledge I was wrong. Difficult at first. Get's easier when you can observe the market for exactly what it is. For lack of a better term to describe the phenomena, the manipulation to me is simply another element of the market's arrangement that has to be learned and adjusted to. I have done that.... For the most part. (Nobody is 100% right... actually )

    Be a true shame to see things change and effectively lock me (and many others ) out today that I'm right in the place I've worked as long and difficult to be. If that happens, I guess I will have to correct.... again. But I surely hope it does not. Kind of my very last shot here.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote One thing that I don't know is WHY are you men so fearful of regulations against the Big Boys? You like to subject yourselves to their price manipulations, requotes and you think that isn't going to cut through your winnings? What they did during this SNB even was absolute s***! And you are going to stand there and take it when they f*** us over and over and above?? If you are fearful that the regulators would only turn around and clamp down on us and demand increased deposit from us if we whine, well that is an issue that we want...
    As I ( many others here) have stated, I don't think that it's unfair of LPs to not trade when they don't wish to. We would not like to be forced to trade when we don't wish to it's only fair for us to feel that nobody ought to be forced into that place. However, I don't expect you to plead with this unless you realize that equity force don't go together; it's force as I have said, that you're proposing, it's going to lead to bad consequences for retail traders.

    As I've stated, should LPs have violated their agreements with the brokers then the brokers must bring them to justice but that is a different problem than the one being discussed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    You'd be wrong to think that regulating bodies are with us. For them retail traders are nothing but a nuisance. It's jurisdiction will be limited, if some regulator authority considered regulating a LP. Either LPs ought to be regulated which is impossible this conversation is unworthy. It happened with alpari who's to say if I find another broker it will not happen again. Odds were always stacked against a retail trader from the beginning. Things will not get easier as I stated we are not the priority....
    Trading isn't simple, it's so profitable because it's so risky; many traders around FF have posted huge gains because of movements on CHF pairs. Typically, risks/rewards are aligned so it's important, as a trader, to be prepared for the risks. Apart from managing leverage, risk per place; it's paramount that a serious trader has spread his trading funds with several fantastic brokers, just deposit enough money to pay margins risk-per-trade of their open positions while retaining the remainder in a good bank, further increase risk by putting some money into hard assets, etc.. Be prepared for the worst, that is the way to go about trading.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote Great article (and outline of posts). Pretty much where r4 stand. Yeah, I'm a fish. A few hundred more was turned into by A hundred dollars and I'd love to continue. Been dealing with the US 50:1 and have no complaints but would not want to find any lower really (until my account is much larger ). Greater is nice, I know how to correct and regulate myself. Biggest problem for me personally are the ridiculous FIFO No Hedging regulations which hog tie a lot of trading procedures. I have dedied since 2008 about every free moment of my life learning the markets and how to exchange them. Yes, through, and with the shouts of exploitation. But even cried manipulation myself (I'm human too ) when things went rye. I imagine up to the stage I could see it was my fault and could acknowledge I was wrong. Hard at first. Get's easier when you can observe the market for exactly what it is. For want of a better word the manipulation to me is another element of the market's structure that has to be heard and adjusted to. I have done that.... For the large part. (Nobody is 100% correct... ever) Be a true shame to see things change and lock me (and others) out today that I'm correct in the place I've worked long and difficult to be. If this occurs, I guess I'll have to correct.... again. However, I surely hope it does not. Kind of my last shot here.
    Thanks. Leverage reduction FIFO were brought in because a lot of novice traders were overleveraging utilized hedging as an excuse accept losses to ensure that was regulators' method of protecting them but regulations = taking liberty away, so that is not surprising. Chances were taken away by it from those traders who used those characteristics I believe self-regulation is the regulation as it does not involve forcing someone else.

    And you're absolutely right in that the more we know the markets, the more we know , the easier the more profitable trading becomes, iit takes several years for individuals to reach there but very few get there because many people either lose enough money or get frued enough to quit way before that. However, I feel all that effort is worth it. One very profitable retail trader I know says that individuals invest years to acquire eduion various degrees diplomas that allows them to earn a lot of cash then why should not we, as traders, be willing to invest a couple of years to find out the markets considering the magnitude of the prospective gains!

    Yes, it would very unpleasant for you many others if regulators do make changes to protect modest traders from forex as a result of outcries of unsuccessful traders however as I have said, life isn't always fair.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote As I ( many others here) have said, I do not think it's unfair of LPs not to trade when they do not wish to. We would not like to be made when we do not wish to it is only fair for us to feel that nobody should be forced to that place through 33, to trade. But I do not expect you to sympathize with this unless you realize that fairness force do not go together; it is force as I've said, that you are proposing, it is going to result in negative consequences for retail traders. As I've said, if LPs have violated their...
    that I wasn't actually trading chf.
    I had transactions in eurusd and were. Losdd in a reduction.
    I'm actually talking about transactions becoming closed and brokers moving insolvent and my cash getting stuck.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    quote I wasn't actually trading chf. I also were and had trades in eurusd. Losdd in a reduction. I am talking about trades being closed and brokers going insolvent and my money.
    Well, that's horrible but unfortunately, considering the disposition of Foreign Exchange it's always a chance at all times, that's why I believe we should only deposit up to now with the broker as is required to pay for open positions, therefore even if the broker does return the money becomes inaccessible (temporarily or permanantly) then it's a fraction of the general trading capital...

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