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Thread: Interbank Spot: quotBank Reversalsquot Make it a Fools Game???

  1. #1
    TtcesrCax
    Guest
    I would appreciate if Traders with firsthand experience of Institutional Platforms (Hotspot, Currenex, FXAll, Lava) and Interbank Platforms (EBS, Reuters), could remark. Additionally, those who have direct knowledge of those platforms....

    Over the last couple of months, many disturbing accounts of interbank 'etiquette' happen to be relayed by authoritative online posters that, IMO, talk credibly on the subject.

    The major complaint across Institutional ECN (Currenex) and Interbank Platforms (Reuters, EBS), is busted trades. Or what is otherwise known as a bank alteration.

    Basically, this can be a trade implemented by a personal trader, counter-partied by a bank, that at some time later on, is reversed or canceled from the bank, effectively canceling their original sale or buy.

    Under many intra-day styles (scalper), the personal trader has closed the profitable position and can be left with a now OPEN position (ex if a Bank cancels their sell order, the trader still has an open short position, presumably to shut his long which was 'pinpointed' from the bank).

    To confuse things, notifiion is not made directly to the Trader from the Counter-party Bank . Rather notifiion is made to the Traders Prime Broker, who in turn, is expected to inform the Trader in a timely manner.

    This introduction of notifiion delay only compounds the issue. I've heard it could take hours to get a Trader to get notifiion an interbank trade was previously canceled. In actual life, the market could be a few hundred pips OFF MARKET, from that stage...

    This can drastically slash a traders funds, empty their account, or put them into deep debt ; as their closed position is reopened and unattended for hours, after-the-fact...

    Why would a Prime Broker sell out a Trader?

    The answer is simple: to preserve a relationship between the Prime Broker and the Offended Bank (ie Coveted Liquidity Provider). Which relationship is more important? That between a personal, HNW Trader and Deutsch Bank? Or DB and Citibank??

    Lets Name Names. I've read from many traders, bank reversals are common on Currenex. FXAll? Don't know. Lava? Don't know. Hotspot? Don't know. Happens on EBS and Reuters....

    This really is a major concern and critically begs the question: whats the point?

    A Traders profession is at the only real of a Counter-Parties good graces....



    The second disappointment relates to scalping.

    Seemingly, Banks routinely target scalpers who exchange big dimensions ( 20 MIO) to get some pips or quite frequent (automated).

    By goal, we're talking bank reversals online orders. Or having them booted out of a supplier for unfair trading practices.

    That is disturbing because either a Prime Broker acts as bucketshop by operating a deal-desk and accepting exposure on the Traders positions....or, they bend like reed when among their liquidity providers whose been whacked a few times runs crying to the Prime Broker - either reversing the trade (leaving the trader screwed) or having the Trader booted in the liquidity system...

    I've even heard banks will whine if they take a big hit on a longer-term directional trade... They'll just cancel cause they don't wish to take a loss. .

    Frankly, this is all beyond foolish and pure robbery. Categorically untradeable.

    If anyone could share their experiences on the Institutional and Interbank Platforms, it would be much appreciated!

    Thanks Beforehand.

  2. #2
    drescTCus
    Guest
    . . .you make me laugh.
    So now suddenly from Reuters, FXall, Lava, you come straight to bucketshops. What a turnaround! We're talking here of interbank platforms which do real trading together with professional HNW traders that know the way the market works. You actually think these ecn brokers/institutions can get away with that kind of thing with those professional traders. Along with your opinions don't count coz I don't think you have ever placed a single trade in any respect. And by the way, they just seen a UFO in Texas, you may want to research that also.

    Hey I only lost a trade, no problem, I'll only call my broker and that he will bust the trade and put the cash straight back in my account. I don't enjoy losses.

  3. #3
    drescTCus
    Guest
    I really don't think any of this really happens. That is just hearsay or controversy theory. Bank or broker could simply float a trade if it had been implemented significantly from real market price in that time as decided by institutional feed (eg. 3% from market price in the event of interactive brokers). They can not bust a trade just because they had been on the losing side.

  4. #4
    TtcesrCax
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I do not think any of this actually happens. That is only controversy or hearsay concept. Bank or broker could only bust a trade if it had been executed significantly away from real market price in the time as decided by institutional feed (eg. 3% away from market price in the event of interactive brokers). They can not bust a trade simply because they had been on the losing side.
    Do you trade on Hots? Currenex? EBS? Maybe, FXALL?

    Otherwise, I'd prefer the retail people maintained conjecture to themselves...

    I've talked to three traders over the net who do - and therefore are credible - who have experienced only such reversals.

    FX is Unregulated. Banks don't have any obligation to honor their buy sell other than their standing. Which is affected Zilch if they break several on-market trades using a Scalper.

  5. #5
    Esbiru
    Guest
    Trade futures if you are so concerned about stuff like this. .

  6. #6
    TesSaaxcs00
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    FX is Unregulated. Banks have no obligation to honor their buy sell besides their standing. That is affected Zilch if they split several on-market trades with a Scalper.
    There is a bill that's likely to pass congress at a certain point which will require all FX brokers to be a member of a futures association (NFA, ostensibly). Likewise, check to find out if the bank you are dealing with is a part of some regulatory agencies. If that's the case, take the matter up with them.

    A group of HNW traders should have no trouble having an lawyer to represent themselves in this matter, either through regulatory action or a lawsuit.

  7. #7
    drescTCus
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Do you exchange on Hots? Currenex? EBS? Maybe, FXALL?

    If not, I would like the retail people kept conjecture to themselves...

    I have talked to three traders personally over the internet who do and therefore are credible - who've undergone just such reversals.

    FX is Unregulated. Banks have no obligation to honor their buy sell besides their reputation. That is influenced Zilch if they split several on-market trades using a Scalper.
    Then why don't those traders, you have talked to over the net, just move to another broker. No trader will ever tolerate this, not after, in case a bank or broker just bust their transactions because they're on the losing side. Just discuss your very first article once more, none of it makes any sense.

  8. #8
    TtcesrCax
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Then why don't those traders, that you have talked to over the net, simply move to a different broker. No trader will ever tolerate this, not even after, if a bank or broker only bust their trades since they're on the losing side. Only go on your very first post once again, none of it makes any sense.
    They have. Problem is, its not a Broker issue (normally). Its systemic to Interbank culture.

    And if you chance to Swing Big hitting Banks for many points each turn, they get sore.

    The whole objective is to ferret out the likelihood and about which platforms.

    Seeing as you've got zero expertise on any Institutional Platform, you're not much help on this one. Sorry, friend.

  9. #9
    drescTCus
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    They've. Problem is, its not a Broker problem (normally). Its systemic to Interbank culture.

    And should you chance to Swing Big hitting Banks for several points each turn, they become sore.

    The entire purpose is to ferret out the chances and on which platforms.

    Seeing as you have zero expertise on almost any Institutional Platform, you're not much help on this one. Sorry, buddy.
    Lol....if which was the case, the market wouldn't exist, do it?
    And yes, it is a broker issue, coz it'll ultimately be the broker which will bust the commerce, not the counter party. If two banks are dealing directly with each other, they could bust the transaction through mutual consent. But in the event the transaction is being conducted via the broker, a single party cannot decide whether the transaction is going to be broken, either it has to be mutual or the broker will decide as per its own rules. If a broker do so as you say, he'll go out of business in a week. Are you the guy who believes in ufos crashing and nasa moon landing conspiracy?

  10. #10
    G
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I would appreciate if Traders with firsthand experience of Institutional Platforms (Hotspot, Currenex, FXAll, Lava) and Interbank Platforms (EBS, Reuters), could remark. Additionally, those who have direct knowledge of these platforms....

    Over the past couple of months, several disturbing accounts of interbank 'etiquette' happen to be relayed by authoritative internet posters which, IMO, talk credibly on the subject.

    The major complaint across Institutional ECN (Currenex) and Interbank Platforms (Reuters, EBS), is busted trades. Or what is called a bank reversal.

    Basically, this is a trade executed by a private trader, counter-partied with a bank, which at some time in the future, is reversed or canceled by the bank, effectively canceling their original sale or purchase.

    Under many intra-day styles (scalper), the private trader has already closed the profitable standing and is left with a currently OPEN position (ex if a Bank cancels their sell order, the trader still has an open place, presumably to shut his long that was 'pinpointed' by the bank).

    To confound matters, notifiion isn't made directly to the Trader by the Counter-party Bank . Rather telling is made to the Traders Prime Broker, who in turn, is expected to notify the Trader at a timely manner.

    This introduction of telling delay only compounds the problem. I've heard it can take hours to get a Trader to get notifiion an interbank trade was previously canceled. In real life, the market can be several hundred pips OFF MARKET, from this point...

    This can drastically slash a traders capital, empty their account, or set them into deep debt as their closed position is reopened and presumably unattended for hours, after-the-fact...

    Why would a Prime Broker sell a Trader?

    The response is easy: to preserve a relationship between the Prime Broker and the Offended Bank (ie Coveted Liquidity Provider). Which relationship is more important? That between a private, HNW Trader and Deutsch Bank? Or DB and Citibank??

    Lets Name Titles. I've read from several traders, bank reversals are common on Currenex. FXAll? Do not know. Lava? Do not know. Hotspot? Do not know. Happens on EBS and Reuters....

    This really is a major concern and critically begs the question: whats the purpose?

    A Traders profession is at the only real of a Counter-Parties good graces....



    The next disappointment pertains to scalping.

    Apparently, Banks routinely target scalpers who exchange large dimensions ( 20 MIO) to get some pips or quite frequent (automated).

    By goal, we are talking bank reversals online orders. Or having them booted from a supplier for unfair trading practices.

    That is upsetting because a Prime Broker acts as bucketshop by working a deal-desk and accepting vulnerability on the Traders positions....or, they bend such as reed when one of their liquidity suppliers whose been whacked a few times runs crying to the Prime Broker - possibly reversing the trade (leaving the trader money) or using the Trader booted in the liquidity network...

    I've even heard banks will probably complain whenever they take a big hit on a longer-term directional trade... They'll just cancel cause they do not wish to take a loss. .

    Frankly, this is all beyond foolish and pure robbery. Categorically untradeable.

    If anyone can share their experiences around the Institutional and Interbank Platforms, it'd be much appreciated!

    Thanks In Advance.
    Interesting.... Do you have some credible sources to back up this you can post?

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